[Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein
Pankaj Jaiswal
pj37 at cornell.edu
Tue Apr 22 11:03:02 EDT 2008
Question comes back to how we differentiate the fused/non-fused terminal
ends of the higher order veins present in the periphery [see Jose Manuel
response] and do we really want it? Also going by your, Peter and
Maria's suggestion, I think in that case instead of Brochidromous vein
we need peripheral vein as a new parent term with two children namely
submarginal and intramarginal veins.
Can you help us with the definitions?
Pankaj
Dws wrote:
> Peter is correct on this. However, marginal and submarginal are nebulous at best. Where they start and stop is more or less in the eye of the beholder. One could stick with marginal and use it in the sense of the marginal seen in brochidromous.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Stevens [mailto:peter.stevens at mobot.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:10 AM
> To: Pankaj Jaiswal
> Cc: Dws; Fabio Fiorani; po-dev at plantontology.org; Jose Manuel Perez Perez
> Subject: Re: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein
>
> Sorry, I have been at the University for a couple of days.
> Brochidromous venation strictly speaking refers to the venation as a
> whole; one might argue there is no such thing as a brochidromous
> vein. See earlier comment about submarginal veins.
>
> P.
> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote:
>
>> Please let me know if the following works. Although its more like a
>> phenotype term associated with the terminal end of secondary veins.
>> We can try to accommodate this request. [Phenotype terms are
>> strictly not added to PO]. Other terms associated with venation
>> type are 'acrodromous, eucamptodromous, semicraspedodromous.'
>>
>> Given this diversity in leaf venation, my suggestion would be to
>> create two separate instances of brochidodromous vein as follows.
>> Obviously we need a grouping term 'brochidodromous vein' as well.
>> Point to note: we are considering 'brochidodromous vein' as a new
>> entity (Plant structure) compared to its phenotype status described
>> above.
>>
>> leaf vein PO:0020138
>> ---[is_a]--brochidodromous vein [PO:NEW]
>> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW]
>> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW]
>>
>>
>> Also
>>
>> leaf vein PO:0020138
>> ---[is_a]--secondary vein PO:0020140
>> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW]
>> ---[is_a]--tertiary vein PO:0020140
>> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW]
>>
>> Definitions:
>> brochidodromous vein
>> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary and/or
>> higher order veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are
>> joined in a series of prominent arches.
>>
>> brochidodromous secondary vein
>> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary veins do not
>> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of
>> prominent arches.
>>
>> brochidodromous tertiary vein
>> Describes leaves with venation in which the tertiary veins do not
>> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of
>> prominent arches.
>>
>>
>> Dws wrote:
>>> brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most
>>> cases, but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from
>>> anastomoses of tertiary veins and/or/a combination.
>>> Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS
>>> Vice President for Laboratory Research
>>> Pfizer Curator in Botany
>>> Editor, Botanical Review
>>> Associate Editor, FLORA
>>> Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics
>>> The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society
>>> Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/
>>> Journal web site: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/
>>> useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 <http://
>>> www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent?
>>> func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1>
>>> Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/cla
>>> New York Botanical Garden
>>> 2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458
>>> Telephone: 718-817-8632
>>> email: dws at nybg.org
>>> http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/
>>> http://www.plantsystematics.org/
>>> http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp
>>> http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> *From:* Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu]
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM
>>> *To:* Maria A. Gandolfo
>>> *Cc:* po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez
>>> Perez; Dws
>>> *Subject:* Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order
>>> vein
>>> Hi Alejandra,
>>> One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only
>>> specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein
>>> order? Chih-Wei
>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch".
>>>> Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of
>>>> Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33.
>>>>
>>>> Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of
>>>> angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40
>>>>
>>>> Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf
>>>> architecture. 65 p.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alejandra
>>>> At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote:
>>>>> Hi Alejandra,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for quick reply.
>>>>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf
>>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous
>>>>> venation" picture (see
>>>>> pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you
>>>>> mentioned here.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at
>>>>> the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are
>>>>> interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein),
>>>>> do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe
>>>>> such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous
>>>>> vein" ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Chih-Wei
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture
>>>>>> as one tool to describe leaf remains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein
>>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and
>>>>>> more recently LAWG 1999).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the
>>>>>> typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined
>>>>>> together in a series of prominent arches).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alejandra
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear PO developers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> leaf
>>>>>>> lamina" (see attached picture).
>>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from
>>>>>>> tertiary
>>>>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine
>>>>>>> the vein
>>>>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the
>>>>>>> proximal
>>>>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure,
>>>>>>> please share
>>>>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chih-Wei
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
>>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E;
>>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644;
>>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744;
>>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc
>>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment;
>>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Alejandra,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper
>>>>> "Evolution and Function of leaf
>>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation"
>>>>> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those
>>>>> papers
>>>>> you mentioned here.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the
>>>>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in
>>>>> that
>>>>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is
>>>>> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein
>>>>> structure?
>>>>> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Chih-Wei
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Content-Type: application/pdf;
>>>>> x-mac-type=50444620;
>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644;
>>>>> x-mac-creator=4341524F;
>>>>> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation
>>>>> architecture-review.pdf
>>>>> Content-Disposition: inline;
>>>>> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation
>>>>> architecture-review.pdf"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture
>>>>>> as one
>>>>>> tool to describe leaf remains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein
>>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more
>>>>>> recently LAWG 1999).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical
>>>>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a
>>>>>> series of prominent arches).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alejandra
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear PO developers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding
>>>>>>> to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the
>>>>>>> margin of the
>>>>>>> leaf lamina" (see attached picture).
>>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from
>>>>>>> tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to
>>>>>>> determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous
>>>>>>> structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts
>>>>>>> about this structure, please
>>>>>>> share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as
>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chih-Wei
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
>>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E;
>>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644;
>>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744;
>>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc
>>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment;
>>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>> --
>> Pankaj Jaiswal
>> G-15, Bradfield Hall
>> Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics
>> Cornell University
>> Ithaca, NY-14853, USA
>>
>> Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199
>> fax: +1-607-255-6683
>> _______________________________________________
>> Po-dev mailing list
>> Po-dev at plantontology.org
>> http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev
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--
Pankaj Jaiswal
G-15, Bradfield Hall
Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY-14853, USA
Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199
fax: +1-607-255-6683
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