[Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein
Peter Stevens
peter.stevens at mobot.org
Tue Apr 22 09:40:29 EDT 2008
Seems a good solution.
P.
On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:36 AM, Dws wrote:
> Peter is correct on this. However, marginal and submarginal are
> nebulous at best. Where they start and stop is more or less in the
> eye of the beholder. One could stick with marginal and use it in
> the sense of the marginal seen in brochidromous.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Stevens [mailto:peter.stevens at mobot.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:10 AM
> To: Pankaj Jaiswal
> Cc: Dws; Fabio Fiorani; po-dev at plantontology.org; Jose Manuel Perez
> Perez
> Subject: Re: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high
> order vein
>
> Sorry, I have been at the University for a couple of days.
> Brochidromous venation strictly speaking refers to the venation as a
> whole; one might argue there is no such thing as a brochidromous
> vein. See earlier comment about submarginal veins.
>
> P.
> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote:
>
>> Please let me know if the following works. Although its more like a
>> phenotype term associated with the terminal end of secondary veins.
>> We can try to accommodate this request. [Phenotype terms are
>> strictly not added to PO]. Other terms associated with venation
>> type are 'acrodromous, eucamptodromous, semicraspedodromous.'
>>
>> Given this diversity in leaf venation, my suggestion would be to
>> create two separate instances of brochidodromous vein as follows.
>> Obviously we need a grouping term 'brochidodromous vein' as well.
>> Point to note: we are considering 'brochidodromous vein' as a new
>> entity (Plant structure) compared to its phenotype status described
>> above.
>>
>> leaf vein PO:0020138
>> ---[is_a]--brochidodromous vein [PO:NEW]
>> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW]
>> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW]
>>
>>
>> Also
>>
>> leaf vein PO:0020138
>> ---[is_a]--secondary vein PO:0020140
>> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW]
>> ---[is_a]--tertiary vein PO:0020140
>> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW]
>>
>> Definitions:
>> brochidodromous vein
>> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary and/or
>> higher order veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are
>> joined in a series of prominent arches.
>>
>> brochidodromous secondary vein
>> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary veins do not
>> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of
>> prominent arches.
>>
>> brochidodromous tertiary vein
>> Describes leaves with venation in which the tertiary veins do not
>> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of
>> prominent arches.
>>
>>
>> Dws wrote:
>>> brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most
>>> cases, but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from
>>> anastomoses of tertiary veins and/or/a combination.
>>> Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS
>>> Vice President for Laboratory Research
>>> Pfizer Curator in Botany
>>> Editor, Botanical Review
>>> Associate Editor, FLORA
>>> Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics
>>> The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society
>>> Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/
>>> Journal web site: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/
>>> useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 <http://
>>> www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent?
>>> func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1>
>>> Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/
>>> cla
>>> New York Botanical Garden
>>> 2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458
>>> Telephone: 718-817-8632
>>> email: dws at nybg.org
>>> http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/
>>> http://www.plantsystematics.org/
>>> http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp
>>> http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> *From:* Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu]
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM
>>> *To:* Maria A. Gandolfo
>>> *Cc:* po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez
>>> Perez; Dws
>>> *Subject:* Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order
>>> vein
>>> Hi Alejandra,
>>> One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only
>>> specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein
>>> order? Chih-Wei
>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch".
>>>> Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of
>>>> Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33.
>>>>
>>>> Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of
>>>> angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40
>>>>
>>>> Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf
>>>> architecture. 65 p.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alejandra
>>>> At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote:
>>>>> Hi Alejandra,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for quick reply.
>>>>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf
>>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous
>>>>> venation" picture (see
>>>>> pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you
>>>>> mentioned here.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at
>>>>> the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are
>>>>> interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein),
>>>>> do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe
>>>>> such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous
>>>>> vein" ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Chih-Wei
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture
>>>>>> as one tool to describe leaf remains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein
>>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and
>>>>>> more recently LAWG 1999).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the
>>>>>> typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined
>>>>>> together in a series of prominent arches).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alejandra
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear PO developers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> leaf
>>>>>>> lamina" (see attached picture).
>>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from
>>>>>>> tertiary
>>>>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine
>>>>>>> the vein
>>>>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the
>>>>>>> proximal
>>>>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure,
>>>>>>> please share
>>>>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chih-Wei
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
>>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E;
>>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644;
>>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744;
>>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc
>>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment;
>>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Alejandra,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper
>>>>> "Evolution and Function of leaf
>>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation"
>>>>> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those
>>>>> papers
>>>>> you mentioned here.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at
>>>>> the
>>>>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in
>>>>> that
>>>>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if
>>>>> there is
>>>>> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein
>>>>> structure?
>>>>> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Chih-Wei
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Content-Type: application/pdf;
>>>>> x-mac-type=50444620;
>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644;
>>>>> x-mac-creator=4341524F;
>>>>> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation
>>>>> architecture-review.pdf
>>>>> Content-Disposition: inline;
>>>>> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation
>>>>> architecture-review.pdf"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture
>>>>>> as one
>>>>>> tool to describe leaf remains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein
>>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more
>>>>>> recently LAWG 1999).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical
>>>>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together
>>>>>> in a
>>>>>> series of prominent arches).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alejandra
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear PO developers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding
>>>>>>> to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the
>>>>>>> margin of the
>>>>>>> leaf lamina" (see attached picture).
>>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from
>>>>>>> tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to
>>>>>>> determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous
>>>>>>> structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts
>>>>>>> about this structure, please
>>>>>>> share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as
>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chih-Wei
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
>>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E;
>>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644;
>>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744;
>>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc
>>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment;
>>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Pankaj Jaiswal
>> G-15, Bradfield Hall
>> Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics
>> Cornell University
>> Ithaca, NY-14853, USA
>>
>> Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199
>> fax: +1-607-255-6683
>> _______________________________________________
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