new term request: Hull

[peter.stevens at mobot.org]

This would seem to be a matter of principle, along the lines of 
Leszek's recent comments about the educational side of the PO.  We 
cannot take account of misuses of terms, nonce terms, and the like, 
except by making sure synonymy grows..  After all, many people, inc, 
botanists of my acquaintance, call a lamina a leaf and do not blush.

P.


>Pankaj -
>
>I've looked at the paper - I still don't see why it can't be 
>annotated to lemma and palea. Just because the authors use a 
>non-botanical word does not mean that the databases have to use the 
>term.
>
>Toby
>
>
>On Jan 31, 2006, at 9:57 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote:
>
>
>There is some difficulty on putting hull as synonym. I think there 
>is a precedence on creating a new term even though a part is called 
>by different name in a derive parent structure. e.g. in seed many 
>parts are derived from the ovule, e.g. chalaza, micropyle, testa 
>etc. These are derived structures or rather the same structures but 
>sometimes can be called by different names. Similarly it will be 
>very difficult to annotate phenotypes and gene expression such as in 
>case of 
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A
bstract&list_uids=16443696&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum
>
>to lemma and palea. In this case the actual structure is called as 
>hull. I think we need hull as a new term, and the parentage as 
>follows
>
>
>fruit
>
>---part_of---hull
>
>
>Also
>
>
>floret
>
>--part_of--lemma
>
>-----develops_from--hull
>
>--part_of--palea
>
>-----develops_from--hull
>
>
>-Pankaj
>
>
>peter.stevens at mobot.org wrote:
>
>
>I agree with Toby - second would include all sorts of things, and
>
>third is difficult - the K of raspberries barely is enlarged at all,
>
>and is basically marcescent - marcescent calyces are common, and
>
>nobody ever calls then a hull (and I hope never will).
>
>P.
>
>.
>
>  >Hi Pankaj -
>
>  >
>
>  >I'd still go with synonym of lemma and palea, probably as hull sensu
>
>  >Poaceae. I'd prefer to avoid the first defniition you've listed
>
>  >below, since it doesn't pertain to anything botanical (or maybe
>
>  >pertains to everything). Following the second definition, you could
>
>  >have a synonym of calyx being hull sensu Rosaceae.
>
>  >
>
>  >Toby
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >On Jan 25, 2006, at 3:29 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote:
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >Hi All,
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >I need a new term to describe 'hull' in cereal plants. I know
>
>  >experts say that it is nothing different than lemma and palea, the
>
>  >two parts found in grass floret. Therefore the options are to put
>
>  >'hull' as synonyms of both lemma and palea, which I somehow disagree
>
>  >because the term 'hull' is never used in florets/grass flowers. The
>
>  >usage is only in the grass fruits (caryopsis). It also appears that
>
>  >the same term is used in other families as well. So we need a
>
>  >species/organ specific distinction as well.
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  ># dry outer covering of a fruit or seed or nut
>
>  >
>
>  ># persistent enlarged calyx at base of e.g. a strawberry or raspberry
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >-Pankaj
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  >Elizabeth A. Kellogg
>
>  >
>
>  >E. Desmond Lee and Family Professor of Botanical Studies
>
>  >
>
>  >Department of Biology
>
>  >
>
>  >University of Missouri-St. Louis
>
>  >
>
>  >St. Louis, MO 63121
>
>  >
>
>  >Tel: 314-516-6217
>
>  >
>
>  >FAX: 314-516-6233
>
>  >
>
>  >http://www.umsl.edu/services/kellogg/
>
>
>
>Elizabeth A. Kellogg
>
>E. Desmond Lee and Family Professor of Botanical Studies
>
>Department of Biology
>
>University of Missouri-St. Louis
>
>St. Louis, MO 63121
>
>Tel: 314-516-6217
>
>FAX: 314-516-6233
>
>http://www.umsl.edu/services/kellogg/

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