<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Peter,<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>No problem, I will keep your advise in mind, and thank you for sharing the information. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Chih-Wei</DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Aug 24, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Peter Stevens wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Please, do not introduce these fruit terms further into the literature! Botany in burdened enough with such terms. I find it far better simply to describe the morphology of fruits (some terms such as berry, achene, etc., are fine). Thus people have used anthocarp for things like morning glory fruits, but then Dipterocarpaceae have anthocarps although they might be pseudosamara acc. to Spjut (but then again, they might not). And blueberries are close to apples in morphology, so if apples are pomes, then blueberries may be, too... And Spjut's work, although comprehensive, will need still further elaboration; maybe in the book Stuppy and he are writing. I will have to ait in patience. There is a reference to Potter et al. 2007 on /APweb/.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Aug 23, 2007, at 9:07 PM, Chih-Wei Tung wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hi Peter,<BR><BR>Thank you for the quick answer. You mentioned Potter et al use Spjut's fruit terms in Rosaceae, do you have that reference? I found one article " A systematic Treatment of Fruit Types " by Richard Spjut from <A href="http://www.worldbotanical.com/fruit_types.htm">http://www.worldbotanical.com/fruit_types.htm</A>, is this the guide we can follow? I will check our library to see if they have Spjut's book too. <BR><BR>Thank you again, <BR><BR>Chih-Wei<BR><BR><BR><BR><DIV><SPAN class="gmail_quote">On 8/23/07, <B class="gmail_sendername">Peter Stevens</B> <<A href="mailto:peter.stevens@mobot.org">peter.stevens@mobot.org</A>> wrote:</SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Oh dear, we venture into the swamp of rosaceous fruit terms! If we<BR>are thinking of Rosaceae, the core of an apple is basically a fruit<BR>proper, i.e. the post fertilisation products of the gynoecium. The<BR>cortex is probably hypanthial tissue, mesocarp refers to tissues of a <BR>true fruit, i.e., it has little to do with what we eat in an apple<BR>(but a great deal t do wit what we relish in raspberries or<BR>blackberries (which of course are not berries) and flesh can refer to<BR>anything fleshy irrespective of actual origin, including the flesh of <BR>a strawberry, which also is not a berry, but neither is it a "pome" -<BR>the fruit of an apple, rather, it has a lot of achenes distributed<BR>over the surface of an enlarged and fleshy receptacle. So the three <BR>terms that you mention are not interchangeable, and the third<BR>(flesh) should not be usedin an ontology. The 'fruit skin peel' of<BR>the GDR database has nothing to do with the fruit s. str., but is the<BR> epidermis and maybe a few adjacent cells of the hypanthium.<BR><BR>Note that in a recent paper Potter et al. use Spjut's fruit terms for<BR>fruits of Rosaceae, for which you will need Spjut as a guide...<BR><BR>I hope this helps. <BR><BR>P.<BR>On Aug 23, 2007, at 2:20 PM, Chih-Wei Tung wrote:<BR><BR>> Hi, Rosaceae community,<BR>><BR>> I have a question regarding to the fruit structure terminology<BR>> which are used in GDR database "genebank apple cDNA <BR>> library" (<A href="http://www.bioinfo.wsu.edu/gdr/projects/malus/unigeneV3/">http://www.bioinfo.wsu.edu/gdr/projects/malus/unigeneV3/</A><BR>> malus_librarySummary.shtml).<BR>> Please help me to define or clarify the following terms, I will add <BR>> them either as new ontology terms or synonyms to the existing plant<BR>> ontology based on your answers<BR>><BR>> fruit cortex -> is it the same as flesh or mesocarp? are these<BR>> three terms used interchangeable? <BR>> fruit core -> is this the tissue in the center of the fruit as seen<BR>> in <A href="http://www.uq.edu.au/_School_Science_Lessons/5.6FruitPome.GIF">http://www.uq.edu.au/_School_Science_Lessons/5.6FruitPome.GIF </A>?<BR>> does it include seeds? what's the definition?<BR>> Currently Plant Ontology database has "fruit placenta: a more or<BR>> less localized region within a fruit to which seeds are attached", <BR>> can "fruit placenta" be a synonym to "fruit core"?<BR>><BR>> Your opinion and comments are sincerely appreciated!<BR>><BR>> Thank you,<BR>><BR>> Chih-Wei Tung<BR>> Plant Ontology Consortium <BR>> Cornell University<BR>> Ithaca, NY<BR>> <A href="http://www.plantontology.org">www.plantontology.org</A><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> Po-dev mailing list<BR>> <A href="mailto:Po-dev@plantontology.org"> Po-dev@plantontology.org</A><BR>> <A href="http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev">http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>