From cwt6 at cornell.edu Mon Apr 14 22:41:58 2008 From: cwt6 at cornell.edu (Chih-Wei Tung) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:41:58 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] Plant Ontology Database #0408 Release Message-ID: <20251632-EC22-4EB1-923A-00D9B02C97B6@cornell.edu> Plant Ontology (PO) Consortium is happy to announce the release #0408 of the PO database! http://www.plantontology.org. For detailed release notes, please visit http://www.plantontology.org/docs/release_notes/index.html * Ontology - 1128 PO terms [19 NEW] - 58117 annotations [18572 NEW] * Ontology and annotation browser (http://www.plantontology.org/amigo/ go.cgi) - NEW: Added ~16000 annotations on genes and mutant phenotype germplasm from tomato, tobacco, potato, eggplant, pepper and Hyoscyamus. These annotations are contributed by Solanaceae Genomics Network (SGN; http://sgn.cornell.edu/) - Updated and added new annotations contributed by TAIR (for Arabidopsis) and Gramene (for rice) databases. * Publication - The Plant Ontology Database: a community resource for plant structure and developmental stages controlled vocabulary and annotations. Avraham et al. Nucleic Acids Research 2008 36:D449-D454; http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/36/suppl_1/D449 * Ontology requests - We encourage researchers to submit ontology requests at: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=76834&atid=835555 * Collaborators - We welcome our new collaborators: Dennis Stevenson: NY Botanical Graden Maria A. Gandolfo: Bailey Hortorium, Cornell University Bioversity International: http://www.bioversityinternational.org Generation Challenge Programme (GCP): http://www.generationcp.org The Plant Ontology Consortium web: http:www.plantontology.org e-mail: po-dev at plantontology.org The project is funded by National Science Foundation, USA, (Grant No. DBI-0703908) From cwt6 at cornell.edu Mon Apr 21 10:27:07 2008 From: cwt6 at cornell.edu (Chih-Wei Tung) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:27:07 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein Message-ID: <84CD53AC-DEEC-480E-9A8D-5A67FADE4080@cornell.edu> Dear PO developers, We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the leaf lamina" (see attached picture). Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, please share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. Best, Chih-Wei -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: peripheral vein.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 71168 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From cwt6 at cornell.edu Mon Apr 21 12:01:49 2008 From: cwt6 at cornell.edu (Chih-Wei Tung) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:01:49 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20080421112815.025c69a8@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> References: <84CD53AC-DEEC-480E-9A8D-5A67FADE4080@cornell.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20080421112815.025c69a8@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: Hi Alejandra, Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you mentioned here. One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? Thanks, Chih-Wei ? On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: > > Hi Chih-Wei, > > For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture as one > tool to describe leaf remains. > > There are several papers that address the leaf vein architecture > terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more recently LAWG 1999). > > What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical > brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a > series of prominent arches). > > > If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you > > Alejandra > > > At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >> Dear PO developers, >> >> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the >> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the leaf >> lamina" (see attached picture). >> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from tertiary >> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine the vein >> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the proximal >> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, please share >> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >> >> Best, >> >> Chih-Wei >> >> >> >> >> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >> x-mac-type=5738424E; >> x-unix-mode=0644; >> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >> name=peripheral vein.doc >> Content-Disposition: attachment; >> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >> >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Evolution and function of leaf venation architecture-review.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 731177 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwt6 at cornell.edu Mon Apr 21 12:50:20 2008 From: cwt6 at cornell.edu (Chih-Wei Tung) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:50:20 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20080421121319.023901a8@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> References: <84CD53AC-DEEC-480E-9A8D-5A67FADE4080@cornell.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20080421112815.025c69a8@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20080421121319.023901a8@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <7DC3B7B7-276D-4980-8BF2-68777C2AB110@cornell.edu> Hi Alejandra, One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein order? Chih-Wei On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: > > Hi, > > More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch". > > Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of > Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33. > > Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of > angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40 > > Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf > architecture. 65 p. > > > Alejandra > At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >> Hi Alejandra, >> >> Thank you for quick reply. >> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf venation >> architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" picture (see pdf >> attachment). I will also look into those papers you mentioned here. >> >> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that >> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is any >> specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? Can we >> call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Chih-Wei >> >> ??? >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>> >>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture as one >>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>> >>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein architecture >>> terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more recently LAWG 1999). >>> >>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a >>> series of prominent arches). >>> >>> >>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>> >>> Alejandra >>> >>> >>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>> Dear PO developers, >>>> >>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the >>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the >>>> leaf >>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>> tertiary >>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine the vein >>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the proximal >>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, please share >>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Chih-Wei >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> Hi Alejandra, >> >> Thank you for quick reply. >> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf >> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" >> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers >> you mentioned here. >> >> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that >> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is >> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? >> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Chih-Wei >> >> >> Content-Type: application/pdf; >> x-mac-type=50444620; >> x-unix-mode=0644; >> x-mac-creator=4341524F; >> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation architecture- >> review.pdf >> Content-Disposition: inline; >> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation >> architecture-review.pdf" >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>> >>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>> >>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture as one >>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>> >>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein architecture >>> terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more recently LAWG 1999). >>> >>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a >>> series of prominent arches). >>> >>> >>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>> >>> Alejandra >>> >>> >>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>> Dear PO developers, >>>> >>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the >>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the >>>> leaf >>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>> tertiary >>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine the vein >>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the proximal >>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, please share >>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Chih-Wei >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dws at nybg.org Mon Apr 21 12:58:18 2008 From: dws at nybg.org (Dws) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:58:18 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <7DC3B7B7-276D-4980-8BF2-68777C2AB110@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281560@xmail.nybg.org> brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most cases, but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from anastomoses of tertiary veins and/or/a combination. Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS Vice President for Laboratory Research Pfizer Curator in Botany Editor, Botanical Review Associate Editor, FLORA Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/ Journal web site: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/cla New York Botanical Garden 2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458 Telephone: 718-817-8632 email: dws at nybg.org http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/ http://www.plantsystematics.org/ http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/ -----Original Message----- From: Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM To: Maria A. Gandolfo Cc: po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez Perez; Dws Subject: Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein Hi Alejandra, One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein order? Chih-Wei On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: Hi, More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch". Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33. Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40 Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf architecture. 65 p. Alejandra At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: Hi Alejandra, Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you mentioned here. One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? Thanks, Chih-Wei ??? On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: Hi Chih-Wei, For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture as one tool to describe leaf remains. There are several papers that address the leaf vein architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more recently LAWG 1999). What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a series of prominent arches). If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you Alejandra At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: Dear PO developers, We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the leaf lamina" (see attached picture). Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, please share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. Best, Chih-Wei Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-mac-type=5738424E; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-creator=4D535744; name=peripheral vein.doc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="peripheral vein.doc" Hi Alejandra, Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you mentioned here. One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? Thanks, Chih-Wei Content-Type: application/pdf; x-mac-type=50444620; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-creator=4341524F; name=Evolution and function of leaf venation architecture-review.pdf Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation architecture-review.pdf" On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: Hi Chih-Wei, For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture as one tool to describe leaf remains. There are several papers that address the leaf vein architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more recently LAWG 1999). What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a series of prominent arches). If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you Alejandra At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: Dear PO developers, We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the leaf lamina" (see attached picture). Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, please share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. Best, Chih-Wei Content-Type: application/octet-stream; x-mac-type=5738424E; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-creator=4D535744; name=peripheral vein.doc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="peripheral vein.doc" No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 12:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj37 at cornell.edu Mon Apr 21 13:44:54 2008 From: pj37 at cornell.edu (Pankaj Jaiswal) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:44:54 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281560@xmail.nybg.org> References: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281560@xmail.nybg.org> Message-ID: <480CD296.2070706@cornell.edu> Please let me know if the following works. Although its more like a phenotype term associated with the terminal end of secondary veins. We can try to accommodate this request. [Phenotype terms are strictly not added to PO]. Other terms associated with venation type are 'acrodromous, eucamptodromous, semicraspedodromous.' Given this diversity in leaf venation, my suggestion would be to create two separate instances of brochidodromous vein as follows. Obviously we need a grouping term 'brochidodromous vein' as well. Point to note: we are considering 'brochidodromous vein' as a new entity (Plant structure) compared to its phenotype status described above. leaf vein PO:0020138 ---[is_a]--brochidodromous vein [PO:NEW] ------[is_a]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] ------[is_a]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] Also leaf vein PO:0020138 ---[is_a]--secondary vein PO:0020140 ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] ---[is_a]--tertiary vein PO:0020140 ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] Definitions: brochidodromous vein Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary and/or higher order veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of prominent arches. brochidodromous secondary vein Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of prominent arches. brochidodromous tertiary vein Describes leaves with venation in which the tertiary veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of prominent arches. Dws wrote: > brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most cases, > but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from anastomoses > of tertiary veins and/or/a combination. > > > > Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS > Vice President for Laboratory Research > Pfizer Curator in Botany > > Editor, Botanical Review > Associate Editor, FLORA > Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics > The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society > Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/ > Journal web site: > http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 > > Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/cla > > New York Botanical Garden > 2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458 > Telephone: 718-817-8632 > email: dws at nybg.org > http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/ > http://www.plantsystematics.org/ > http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp > http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/ > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] > *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM > *To:* Maria A. Gandolfo > *Cc:* po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez > Perez; Dws > *Subject:* Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein > > Hi Alejandra, > > One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only > specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein order? > > Chih-Wei > > > > > On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch". >> >> Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of >> Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33. >> >> Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of >> angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40 >> >> Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf >> architecture. 65 p. >> >> >> Alejandra >> At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>> Hi Alejandra, >>> >>> Thank you for quick reply. >>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf >>> venation >>> architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" picture (see >>> pdf >>> attachment). I will also look into those papers you mentioned here. >>> >>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that >>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is any >>> specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? Can we >>> call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Chih-Wei >>> >>> ??? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>> >>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture as one >>>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>>> >>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein architecture >>>> terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more recently LAWG 1999). >>>> >>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a >>>> series of prominent arches). >>>> >>>> >>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>> >>>> Alejandra >>>> >>>> >>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>> >>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the >>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the >>>>> leaf >>>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>> tertiary >>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine the vein >>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the proximal >>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, please share >>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Alejandra, >>> >>> Thank you for quick reply. >>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf >>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" >>> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers >>> you mentioned here. >>> >>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that >>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is >>> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? >>> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Chih-Wei >>> >>> >>> Content-Type: application/pdf; >>> x-mac-type=50444620; >>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>> x-mac-creator=4341524F; >>> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation >>> architecture-review.pdf >>> Content-Disposition: inline; >>> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation >>> architecture-review.pdf" >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>> >>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture as one >>>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>>> >>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more >>>> recently LAWG 1999). >>>> >>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a >>>> series of prominent arches). >>>> >>>> >>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>> >>>> Alejandra >>>> >>>> >>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>> >>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the >>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the >>>>> leaf >>>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>> tertiary >>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine the vein >>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the proximal >>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, please >>>>> share >>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2 - Release Date: > 4/18/2008 12:00 AM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Po-dev mailing list > Po-dev at plantontology.org > http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev -- Pankaj Jaiswal G-15, Bradfield Hall Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics Cornell University Ithaca, NY-14853, USA Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 fax: +1-607-255-6683 From mag4 at cornell.edu Mon Apr 21 14:02:48 2008 From: mag4 at cornell.edu (Maria A. Gandolfo) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:02:48 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <480CD296.2070706@cornell.edu> References: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281560@xmail.nybg.org> <480CD296.2070706@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20080421135829.025ad4b8@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> The definitions are OK if it is clear what vein category you are talking about. The festooned brochidodromous leaves are those that have one or more additional sets of loops outside the main brochidodromous loops that can be originated from secondary veins and/or tertiary veins or veins of higher category (here is where you REALLY need to know the vein category). In addition, when the secondary veins end in a strong vein closely paralleling the leaf margin they form the typical "intramarginal vein" (see for example in Myrtaceae) Alejandra At 01:44 PM 4/21/2008, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote: >Please let me know if the following works. Although its more like a >phenotype term associated with the terminal end of secondary veins. We can >try to accommodate this request. [Phenotype terms are strictly not added >to PO]. Other terms associated with venation type are 'acrodromous, >eucamptodromous, semicraspedodromous.' > >Given this diversity in leaf venation, my suggestion would be to create >two separate instances of brochidodromous vein as follows. Obviously we >need a grouping term 'brochidodromous vein' as well. Point to note: we are >considering 'brochidodromous vein' as a new entity (Plant structure) >compared to its phenotype status described above. > >leaf vein PO:0020138 >---[is_a]--brochidodromous vein [PO:NEW] >------[is_a]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] >------[is_a]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] > > >Also > >leaf vein PO:0020138 >---[is_a]--secondary vein PO:0020140 >------[develops_from]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] >---[is_a]--tertiary vein PO:0020140 >------[develops_from]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] > >Definitions: >brochidodromous vein > Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary and/or > higher order veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are joined > in a series of prominent arches. > >brochidodromous secondary vein > Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary veins do > not terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of > prominent arches. > >brochidodromous tertiary vein > Describes leaves with venation in which the tertiary veins do not > terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of prominent arches. > > >Dws wrote: >>brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most cases, >>but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from anastomoses of >>tertiary veins and/or/a combination. >> >> >>Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS >>Vice President for Laboratory Research >>Pfizer Curator in Botany >> >>Editor, Botanical Review >>Associate Editor, FLORA >>Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics >>The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society >>Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/ >>Journal web site: >>http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 >> >>Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/cla >> >>New York Botanical Garden >>2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458 >>Telephone: 718-817-8632 >>email: dws at nybg.org >>http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/ >>http://www.plantsystematics.org/ >>http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp >>http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/ >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] >> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM >> *To:* Maria A. Gandolfo >> *Cc:* po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez >> Perez; Dws >> *Subject:* Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein >> Hi Alejandra, >> One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only >> specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein order? >> Chih-Wei >> >> >> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch". >>> Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of >>> Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33. >>> >>> Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of >>> angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40 >>> >>> Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf >>> architecture. 65 p. >>> >>> >>> Alejandra >>> At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>> >>>> Thank you for quick reply. >>>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" >>>> picture (see >>>> pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you >>>> mentioned here. >>>> >>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at >>>> the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in >>>> that particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there >>>> is any specific terminology to describe such joined vein >>>> structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Chih-Wei >>>> >>>> ??? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>> >>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture as >>>>> one tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>> >>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more >>>>> recently LAWG 1999). >>>>> >>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the >>>>> typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together >>>>> in a series of prominent arches). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>> >>>>> Alejandra >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the >>>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the >>>>>> leaf >>>>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>> tertiary >>>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine the vein >>>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the proximal >>>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, please share >>>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>> >>>> Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper >>>> "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" >>>> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers >>>> you mentioned here. >>>> >>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >>>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that >>>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is >>>> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? >>>> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Chih-Wei >>>> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: application/pdf; >>>> x-mac-type=50444620; >>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>> x-mac-creator=4341524F; >>>> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>> architecture-review.pdf >>>> Content-Disposition: inline; >>>> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>> architecture-review.pdf" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>> >>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture as one >>>>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>> >>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more >>>>> recently LAWG 1999). >>>>> >>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a >>>>> series of prominent arches). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>> >>>>> Alejandra >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to >>>>>> the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the >>>>>> leaf lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>> tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to >>>>>> determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous >>>>>> structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts about >>>>>> this structure, please >>>>>> share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2 - Release Date: >> 4/18/2008 12:00 AM >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>_______________________________________________ >>Po-dev mailing list >>Po-dev at plantontology.org >>http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev > >-- >Pankaj Jaiswal >G-15, Bradfield Hall >Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics >Cornell University >Ithaca, NY-14853, USA > >Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 >fax: +1-607-255-6683 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.stevens at mobot.org Tue Apr 22 09:03:41 2008 From: peter.stevens at mobot.org (Peter Stevens) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:03:41 -0500 Subject: [Po-dev] Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <84CD53AC-DEEC-480E-9A8D-5A67FADE4080@cornell.edu> References: <84CD53AC-DEEC-480E-9A8D-5A67FADE4080@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <1196A284-C17D-4814-93EE-EDC2C6885853@mobot.org> There are also the terms submarginal and intramarginal veins to take into account. My guess is that peripheral vein is a synonym. P On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:27 AM, Chih-Wei Tung wrote: > Dear PO developers, > > We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding to the > term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin of the > leaf lamina" (see attached picture). > Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from > tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine > the vein orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the > proximal ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, > please share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. > > Best, > > Chih-Wei > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Po-dev mailing list > Po-dev at plantontology.org > http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev From peter.stevens at mobot.org Tue Apr 22 09:09:37 2008 From: peter.stevens at mobot.org (Peter Stevens) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:09:37 -0500 Subject: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <480CD296.2070706@cornell.edu> References: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281560@xmail.nybg.org> <480CD296.2070706@cornell.edu> Message-ID: Sorry, I have been at the University for a couple of days. Brochidromous venation strictly speaking refers to the venation as a whole; one might argue there is no such thing as a brochidromous vein. See earlier comment about submarginal veins. P. On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote: > Please let me know if the following works. Although its more like a > phenotype term associated with the terminal end of secondary veins. > We can try to accommodate this request. [Phenotype terms are > strictly not added to PO]. Other terms associated with venation > type are 'acrodromous, eucamptodromous, semicraspedodromous.' > > Given this diversity in leaf venation, my suggestion would be to > create two separate instances of brochidodromous vein as follows. > Obviously we need a grouping term 'brochidodromous vein' as well. > Point to note: we are considering 'brochidodromous vein' as a new > entity (Plant structure) compared to its phenotype status described > above. > > leaf vein PO:0020138 > ---[is_a]--brochidodromous vein [PO:NEW] > ------[is_a]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] > ------[is_a]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] > > > Also > > leaf vein PO:0020138 > ---[is_a]--secondary vein PO:0020140 > ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] > ---[is_a]--tertiary vein PO:0020140 > ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] > > Definitions: > brochidodromous vein > Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary and/or > higher order veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are > joined in a series of prominent arches. > > brochidodromous secondary vein > Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary veins do not > terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of > prominent arches. > > brochidodromous tertiary vein > Describes leaves with venation in which the tertiary veins do not > terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of > prominent arches. > > > Dws wrote: >> brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most >> cases, but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from >> anastomoses of tertiary veins and/or/a combination. >> Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS >> Vice President for Laboratory Research >> Pfizer Curator in Botany >> Editor, Botanical Review >> Associate Editor, FLORA >> Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics >> The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society >> Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/ >> Journal web site: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/ >> useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 > www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent? >> func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1> >> Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/cla >> New York Botanical Garden >> 2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458 >> Telephone: 718-817-8632 >> email: dws at nybg.org >> http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/ >> http://www.plantsystematics.org/ >> http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp >> http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/ >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] >> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM >> *To:* Maria A. Gandolfo >> *Cc:* po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez >> Perez; Dws >> *Subject:* Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order >> vein >> Hi Alejandra, >> One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only >> specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein >> order? Chih-Wei >> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch". >>> Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of >>> Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33. >>> >>> Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of >>> angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40 >>> >>> Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf >>> architecture. 65 p. >>> >>> >>> Alejandra >>> At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>> >>>> Thank you for quick reply. >>>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous >>>> venation" picture (see >>>> pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you >>>> mentioned here. >>>> >>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at >>>> the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are >>>> interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein), >>>> do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe >>>> such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous >>>> vein" ? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Chih-Wei >>>> >>>> ??? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>> >>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>> as one tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>> >>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and >>>>> more recently LAWG 1999). >>>>> >>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the >>>>> typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined >>>>> together in a series of prominent arches). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>> >>>>> Alejandra >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>> to the >>>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin >>>>>> of the >>>>>> leaf >>>>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>> tertiary >>>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine >>>>>> the vein >>>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the >>>>>> proximal >>>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, >>>>>> please share >>>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>> >>>> Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper >>>> "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" >>>> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those >>>> papers >>>> you mentioned here. >>>> >>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >>>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in >>>> that >>>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is >>>> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein >>>> structure? >>>> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Chih-Wei >>>> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: application/pdf; >>>> x-mac-type=50444620; >>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>> x-mac-creator=4341524F; >>>> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>> architecture-review.pdf >>>> Content-Disposition: inline; >>>> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>> architecture-review.pdf" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>> >>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>> as one >>>>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>> >>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more >>>>> recently LAWG 1999). >>>>> >>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a >>>>> series of prominent arches). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>> >>>>> Alejandra >>>>> >>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>> to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the >>>>>> margin of the >>>>>> leaf lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>> tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to >>>>>> determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous >>>>>> structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts >>>>>> about this structure, please >>>>>> share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as >>>>>> possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2 - Release Date: >> 4/18/2008 12:00 AM >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Po-dev mailing list >> Po-dev at plantontology.org >> http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev > > -- > Pankaj Jaiswal > G-15, Bradfield Hall > Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics > Cornell University > Ithaca, NY-14853, USA > > Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 > fax: +1-607-255-6683 > _______________________________________________ > Po-dev mailing list > Po-dev at plantontology.org > http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev From dws at nybg.org Tue Apr 22 09:36:29 2008 From: dws at nybg.org (Dws) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:36:29 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281568@xmail.nybg.org> Peter is correct on this. However, marginal and submarginal are nebulous at best. Where they start and stop is more or less in the eye of the beholder. One could stick with marginal and use it in the sense of the marginal seen in brochidromous. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: Peter Stevens [mailto:peter.stevens at mobot.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:10 AM To: Pankaj Jaiswal Cc: Dws; Fabio Fiorani; po-dev at plantontology.org; Jose Manuel Perez Perez Subject: Re: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein Sorry, I have been at the University for a couple of days. Brochidromous venation strictly speaking refers to the venation as a whole; one might argue there is no such thing as a brochidromous vein. See earlier comment about submarginal veins. P. On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote: > Please let me know if the following works. Although its more like a > phenotype term associated with the terminal end of secondary veins. > We can try to accommodate this request. [Phenotype terms are > strictly not added to PO]. Other terms associated with venation > type are 'acrodromous, eucamptodromous, semicraspedodromous.' > > Given this diversity in leaf venation, my suggestion would be to > create two separate instances of brochidodromous vein as follows. > Obviously we need a grouping term 'brochidodromous vein' as well. > Point to note: we are considering 'brochidodromous vein' as a new > entity (Plant structure) compared to its phenotype status described > above. > > leaf vein PO:0020138 > ---[is_a]--brochidodromous vein [PO:NEW] > ------[is_a]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] > ------[is_a]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] > > > Also > > leaf vein PO:0020138 > ---[is_a]--secondary vein PO:0020140 > ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] > ---[is_a]--tertiary vein PO:0020140 > ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] > > Definitions: > brochidodromous vein > Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary and/or > higher order veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are > joined in a series of prominent arches. > > brochidodromous secondary vein > Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary veins do not > terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of > prominent arches. > > brochidodromous tertiary vein > Describes leaves with venation in which the tertiary veins do not > terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of > prominent arches. > > > Dws wrote: >> brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most >> cases, but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from >> anastomoses of tertiary veins and/or/a combination. >> Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS >> Vice President for Laboratory Research >> Pfizer Curator in Botany >> Editor, Botanical Review >> Associate Editor, FLORA >> Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics >> The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society >> Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/ >> Journal web site: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/ >> useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 > www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent? >> func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1> >> Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/cla >> New York Botanical Garden >> 2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458 >> Telephone: 718-817-8632 >> email: dws at nybg.org >> http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/ >> http://www.plantsystematics.org/ >> http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp >> http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/ >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] >> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM >> *To:* Maria A. Gandolfo >> *Cc:* po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez >> Perez; Dws >> *Subject:* Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order >> vein >> Hi Alejandra, >> One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only >> specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein >> order? Chih-Wei >> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch". >>> Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of >>> Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33. >>> >>> Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of >>> angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40 >>> >>> Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf >>> architecture. 65 p. >>> >>> >>> Alejandra >>> At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>> >>>> Thank you for quick reply. >>>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous >>>> venation" picture (see >>>> pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you >>>> mentioned here. >>>> >>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at >>>> the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are >>>> interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein), >>>> do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe >>>> such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous >>>> vein" ? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Chih-Wei >>>> >>>> ??? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>> >>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>> as one tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>> >>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and >>>>> more recently LAWG 1999). >>>>> >>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the >>>>> typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined >>>>> together in a series of prominent arches). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>> >>>>> Alejandra >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>> to the >>>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin >>>>>> of the >>>>>> leaf >>>>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>> tertiary >>>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine >>>>>> the vein >>>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the >>>>>> proximal >>>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, >>>>>> please share >>>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>> >>>> Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper >>>> "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" >>>> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those >>>> papers >>>> you mentioned here. >>>> >>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >>>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in >>>> that >>>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is >>>> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein >>>> structure? >>>> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Chih-Wei >>>> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: application/pdf; >>>> x-mac-type=50444620; >>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>> x-mac-creator=4341524F; >>>> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>> architecture-review.pdf >>>> Content-Disposition: inline; >>>> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>> architecture-review.pdf" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>> >>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>> as one >>>>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>> >>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more >>>>> recently LAWG 1999). >>>>> >>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a >>>>> series of prominent arches). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>> >>>>> Alejandra >>>>> >>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>> to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the >>>>>> margin of the >>>>>> leaf lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>> tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to >>>>>> determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous >>>>>> structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts >>>>>> about this structure, please >>>>>> share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as >>>>>> possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2 - Release Date: >> 4/18/2008 12:00 AM >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Po-dev mailing list >> Po-dev at plantontology.org >> http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev > > -- > Pankaj Jaiswal > G-15, Bradfield Hall > Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics > Cornell University > Ithaca, NY-14853, USA > > Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 > fax: +1-607-255-6683 > _______________________________________________ > Po-dev mailing list > Po-dev at plantontology.org > http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 12:00 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 12:00 AM From peter.stevens at mobot.org Tue Apr 22 09:40:29 2008 From: peter.stevens at mobot.org (Peter Stevens) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:40:29 -0500 Subject: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281568@xmail.nybg.org> References: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281568@xmail.nybg.org> Message-ID: <0F984A3D-38A0-47D1-8420-72E3E0DFEA57@mobot.org> Seems a good solution. P. On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:36 AM, Dws wrote: > Peter is correct on this. However, marginal and submarginal are > nebulous at best. Where they start and stop is more or less in the > eye of the beholder. One could stick with marginal and use it in > the sense of the marginal seen in brochidromous. > > Dennis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Stevens [mailto:peter.stevens at mobot.org] > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:10 AM > To: Pankaj Jaiswal > Cc: Dws; Fabio Fiorani; po-dev at plantontology.org; Jose Manuel Perez > Perez > Subject: Re: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high > order vein > > Sorry, I have been at the University for a couple of days. > Brochidromous venation strictly speaking refers to the venation as a > whole; one might argue there is no such thing as a brochidromous > vein. See earlier comment about submarginal veins. > > P. > On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote: > >> Please let me know if the following works. Although its more like a >> phenotype term associated with the terminal end of secondary veins. >> We can try to accommodate this request. [Phenotype terms are >> strictly not added to PO]. Other terms associated with venation >> type are 'acrodromous, eucamptodromous, semicraspedodromous.' >> >> Given this diversity in leaf venation, my suggestion would be to >> create two separate instances of brochidodromous vein as follows. >> Obviously we need a grouping term 'brochidodromous vein' as well. >> Point to note: we are considering 'brochidodromous vein' as a new >> entity (Plant structure) compared to its phenotype status described >> above. >> >> leaf vein PO:0020138 >> ---[is_a]--brochidodromous vein [PO:NEW] >> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] >> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] >> >> >> Also >> >> leaf vein PO:0020138 >> ---[is_a]--secondary vein PO:0020140 >> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] >> ---[is_a]--tertiary vein PO:0020140 >> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] >> >> Definitions: >> brochidodromous vein >> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary and/or >> higher order veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are >> joined in a series of prominent arches. >> >> brochidodromous secondary vein >> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary veins do not >> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of >> prominent arches. >> >> brochidodromous tertiary vein >> Describes leaves with venation in which the tertiary veins do not >> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of >> prominent arches. >> >> >> Dws wrote: >>> brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most >>> cases, but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from >>> anastomoses of tertiary veins and/or/a combination. >>> Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS >>> Vice President for Laboratory Research >>> Pfizer Curator in Botany >>> Editor, Botanical Review >>> Associate Editor, FLORA >>> Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics >>> The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society >>> Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/ >>> Journal web site: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/ >>> useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 >> www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent? >>> func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1> >>> Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/ >>> cla >>> New York Botanical Garden >>> 2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458 >>> Telephone: 718-817-8632 >>> email: dws at nybg.org >>> http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/ >>> http://www.plantsystematics.org/ >>> http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp >>> http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/ >>> -----Original Message----- >>> *From:* Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM >>> *To:* Maria A. Gandolfo >>> *Cc:* po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez >>> Perez; Dws >>> *Subject:* Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order >>> vein >>> Hi Alejandra, >>> One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only >>> specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein >>> order? Chih-Wei >>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch". >>>> Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of >>>> Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33. >>>> >>>> Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of >>>> angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40 >>>> >>>> Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf >>>> architecture. 65 p. >>>> >>>> >>>> Alejandra >>>> At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for quick reply. >>>>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous >>>>> venation" picture (see >>>>> pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you >>>>> mentioned here. >>>>> >>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at >>>>> the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are >>>>> interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein), >>>>> do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe >>>>> such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous >>>>> vein" ? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>> >>>>> ??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>>> >>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>>> as one tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and >>>>>> more recently LAWG 1999). >>>>>> >>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the >>>>>> typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined >>>>>> together in a series of prominent arches). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>>> >>>>>> Alejandra >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>>> to the >>>>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin >>>>>>> of the >>>>>>> leaf >>>>>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>>> tertiary >>>>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine >>>>>>> the vein >>>>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the >>>>>>> proximal >>>>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, >>>>>>> please share >>>>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper >>>>> "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" >>>>> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those >>>>> papers >>>>> you mentioned here. >>>>> >>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at >>>>> the >>>>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in >>>>> that >>>>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if >>>>> there is >>>>> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein >>>>> structure? >>>>> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: application/pdf; >>>>> x-mac-type=50444620; >>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>> x-mac-creator=4341524F; >>>>> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>>> architecture-review.pdf >>>>> Content-Disposition: inline; >>>>> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>>> architecture-review.pdf" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>>> >>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>>> as one >>>>>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more >>>>>> recently LAWG 1999). >>>>>> >>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>>>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together >>>>>> in a >>>>>> series of prominent arches). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>>> >>>>>> Alejandra >>>>>> >>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>>> to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the >>>>>>> margin of the >>>>>>> leaf lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>>> tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to >>>>>>> determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous >>>>>>> structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts >>>>>>> about this structure, please >>>>>>> share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as >>>>>>> possible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG. >>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2 - Release Date: >>> 4/18/2008 12:00 AM >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> --- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Po-dev mailing list >>> Po-dev at plantontology.org >>> http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev >> >> -- >> Pankaj Jaiswal >> G-15, Bradfield Hall >> Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics >> Cornell University >> Ithaca, NY-14853, USA >> >> Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 >> fax: +1-607-255-6683 >> _______________________________________________ >> Po-dev mailing list >> Po-dev at plantontology.org >> http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3 - Release Date: > 4/21/2008 12:00 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3 - Release Date: > 4/21/2008 12:00 AM > From cwt6 at cornell.edu Tue Apr 22 10:42:22 2008 From: cwt6 at cornell.edu (Chih-Wei Tung) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:42:22 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: References: <84CD53AC-DEEC-480E-9A8D-5A67FADE4080@cornell.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20080421112815.025c69a8@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <3A1F056A-A985-4A59-B6FA-23403D494DE8@cornell.edu> Dear Jose Manuel, Great to know you are following our discussion. I am forwarding your message to the group, please feel free to participate the discussion, so we can provide more precise ontology terms to describe your mutant phenotype. Best, Chih-Wei On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Perez Perez, Jose Manuel wrote: > Dear Chih-Wei, > > I?ve been following the discussion about the ?peripheral vein? term > that we proposed for the AGRON-OMICS Leaf ontology, as I see it, I > totally agree that peripheral vein is a diffuse term that includes > higher order veins. Somebody came across using marginal veins to > refer to the closest veins at the margin and that is a good > solution too. We were interested in finding a term to describe some > mutants that have disconnected veins and, as a consequence, > peripheral (or marginal) veins are absent. > > I am happy to see the amount of feedback you?ve got for our > specific request. That means that people is really interested in > finding proper and shared terms to describe structures that allow > later high-throughput comparison between species. > > All the best, > > Jose Manuel > > -- > Jose M Perez-Perez, PhD > Division de Genetica > UMH - Campus de Elche > Edificio Vinalopo > 03202 Elche (Alicante), Spain > > Tel.: +34 966 658 512 > Fax: +34 966 658 511 > http://genetica.umh.es > De: Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] > Enviado el: 21 April 2008 18:02 > Para: Maria A. Gandolfo > CC: po-dev at plantontology.org; Dennis Stevenson; Fabio Fiorani; > Perez Perez, Jose Manuel > Asunto: Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein > > Hi Alejandra, > > Thank you for quick reply. > I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf > venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" > picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers > you mentioned here. > > One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the > peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that > particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is any > specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? Can we > call it "brochidodromous vein" ? > > Thanks, > > Chih-Wei > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj37 at cornell.edu Tue Apr 22 11:03:02 2008 From: pj37 at cornell.edu (Pankaj Jaiswal) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:03:02 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281568@xmail.nybg.org> References: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281568@xmail.nybg.org> Message-ID: <480DFE26.4040006@cornell.edu> Question comes back to how we differentiate the fused/non-fused terminal ends of the higher order veins present in the periphery [see Jose Manuel response] and do we really want it? Also going by your, Peter and Maria's suggestion, I think in that case instead of Brochidromous vein we need peripheral vein as a new parent term with two children namely submarginal and intramarginal veins. Can you help us with the definitions? Pankaj Dws wrote: > Peter is correct on this. However, marginal and submarginal are nebulous at best. Where they start and stop is more or less in the eye of the beholder. One could stick with marginal and use it in the sense of the marginal seen in brochidromous. > > Dennis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Stevens [mailto:peter.stevens at mobot.org] > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:10 AM > To: Pankaj Jaiswal > Cc: Dws; Fabio Fiorani; po-dev at plantontology.org; Jose Manuel Perez Perez > Subject: Re: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein > > Sorry, I have been at the University for a couple of days. > Brochidromous venation strictly speaking refers to the venation as a > whole; one might argue there is no such thing as a brochidromous > vein. See earlier comment about submarginal veins. > > P. > On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote: > >> Please let me know if the following works. Although its more like a >> phenotype term associated with the terminal end of secondary veins. >> We can try to accommodate this request. [Phenotype terms are >> strictly not added to PO]. Other terms associated with venation >> type are 'acrodromous, eucamptodromous, semicraspedodromous.' >> >> Given this diversity in leaf venation, my suggestion would be to >> create two separate instances of brochidodromous vein as follows. >> Obviously we need a grouping term 'brochidodromous vein' as well. >> Point to note: we are considering 'brochidodromous vein' as a new >> entity (Plant structure) compared to its phenotype status described >> above. >> >> leaf vein PO:0020138 >> ---[is_a]--brochidodromous vein [PO:NEW] >> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] >> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] >> >> >> Also >> >> leaf vein PO:0020138 >> ---[is_a]--secondary vein PO:0020140 >> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] >> ---[is_a]--tertiary vein PO:0020140 >> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] >> >> Definitions: >> brochidodromous vein >> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary and/or >> higher order veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are >> joined in a series of prominent arches. >> >> brochidodromous secondary vein >> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary veins do not >> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of >> prominent arches. >> >> brochidodromous tertiary vein >> Describes leaves with venation in which the tertiary veins do not >> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of >> prominent arches. >> >> >> Dws wrote: >>> brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most >>> cases, but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from >>> anastomoses of tertiary veins and/or/a combination. >>> Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS >>> Vice President for Laboratory Research >>> Pfizer Curator in Botany >>> Editor, Botanical Review >>> Associate Editor, FLORA >>> Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics >>> The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society >>> Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/ >>> Journal web site: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/ >>> useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 >> www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent? >>> func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1> >>> Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/cla >>> New York Botanical Garden >>> 2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458 >>> Telephone: 718-817-8632 >>> email: dws at nybg.org >>> http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/ >>> http://www.plantsystematics.org/ >>> http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp >>> http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/ >>> -----Original Message----- >>> *From:* Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] >>> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM >>> *To:* Maria A. Gandolfo >>> *Cc:* po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez >>> Perez; Dws >>> *Subject:* Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order >>> vein >>> Hi Alejandra, >>> One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only >>> specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein >>> order? Chih-Wei >>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch". >>>> Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of >>>> Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33. >>>> >>>> Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of >>>> angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40 >>>> >>>> Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf >>>> architecture. 65 p. >>>> >>>> >>>> Alejandra >>>> At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for quick reply. >>>>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous >>>>> venation" picture (see >>>>> pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you >>>>> mentioned here. >>>>> >>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at >>>>> the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are >>>>> interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein), >>>>> do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe >>>>> such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous >>>>> vein" ? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>> >>>>> ??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>>> >>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>>> as one tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and >>>>>> more recently LAWG 1999). >>>>>> >>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the >>>>>> typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined >>>>>> together in a series of prominent arches). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>>> >>>>>> Alejandra >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>>> to the >>>>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin >>>>>>> of the >>>>>>> leaf >>>>>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>>> tertiary >>>>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine >>>>>>> the vein >>>>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the >>>>>>> proximal >>>>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, >>>>>>> please share >>>>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper >>>>> "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" >>>>> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those >>>>> papers >>>>> you mentioned here. >>>>> >>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >>>>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in >>>>> that >>>>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is >>>>> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein >>>>> structure? >>>>> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: application/pdf; >>>>> x-mac-type=50444620; >>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>> x-mac-creator=4341524F; >>>>> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>>> architecture-review.pdf >>>>> Content-Disposition: inline; >>>>> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>>> architecture-review.pdf" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>>> >>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>>> as one >>>>>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more >>>>>> recently LAWG 1999). >>>>>> >>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>>>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a >>>>>> series of prominent arches). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>>> >>>>>> Alejandra >>>>>> >>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>>> to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the >>>>>>> margin of the >>>>>>> leaf lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>>> tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to >>>>>>> determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous >>>>>>> structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts >>>>>>> about this structure, please >>>>>>> share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as >>>>>>> possible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG. >>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2 - Release Date: >>> 4/18/2008 12:00 AM >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> --- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Po-dev mailing list >>> Po-dev at plantontology.org >>> http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev >> -- >> Pankaj Jaiswal >> G-15, Bradfield Hall >> Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics >> Cornell University >> Ithaca, NY-14853, USA >> >> Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 >> fax: +1-607-255-6683 >> _______________________________________________ >> Po-dev mailing list >> Po-dev at plantontology.org >> http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 12:00 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 12:00 AM > > -- Pankaj Jaiswal G-15, Bradfield Hall Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics Cornell University Ithaca, NY-14853, USA Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 fax: +1-607-255-6683 From mag4 at cornell.edu Tue Apr 22 11:04:39 2008 From: mag4 at cornell.edu (Maria A. Gandolfo) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:04:39 -0400 Subject: [Po-dev] Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein In-Reply-To: <3A1F056A-A985-4A59-B6FA-23403D494DE8@cornell.edu> References: <84CD53AC-DEEC-480E-9A8D-5A67FADE4080@cornell.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20080421112815.025c69a8@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> <3A1F056A-A985-4A59-B6FA-23403D494DE8@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20080422105603.025a1310@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> There are also other kind of veins: fimbrial veins are formed by higher vein orders that are fused into a vein running just inside the margin. These veins are completely different from the intramarginal veins. They are considered as part of the marginal ultimate venation. Alejandra At 10:42 AM 4/22/2008, Chih-Wei Tung wrote: >Dear Jose Manuel, > >Great to know you are following our discussion. I am forwarding your >message to the group, please feel free to participate the discussion, so >we can provide more precise ontology terms to describe your mutant phenotype. > >Best, > >Chih-Wei > >On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Perez Perez, Jose Manuel wrote: >>Dear Chih-Wei, >> >>I've been following the discussion about the "peripheral vein" term that >>we proposed for the AGRON-OMICS Leaf ontology, as I see it, I totally >>agree that peripheral vein is a diffuse term that includes higher order >>veins. Somebody came across using marginal veins to refer to the closest >>veins at the margin and that is a good solution too. We were interested >>in finding a term to describe some mutants that have disconnected veins >>and, as a consequence, peripheral (or marginal) veins are absent. >> >>I am happy to see the amount of feedback you've got for our specific >>request. That means that people is really interested in finding proper >>and shared terms to describe structures that allow later high-throughput >>comparison between species. >> >>All the best, >> >>Jose Manuel >> >>-- >>Jose M Perez-Perez, PhD >>Division de Genetica >>UMH - Campus de Elche >>Edificio Vinalopo >>03202 Elche (Alicante), Spain >> >>Tel.: +34 966 658 512 >>Fax: +34 966 658 511 >>http://genetica.umh.es >>De: Chih-Wei Tung [mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] >>Enviado el: 21 April 2008 18:02 >>Para: Maria A. Gandolfo >>CC: po-dev at plantontology.org; Dennis >>Stevenson; Fabio Fiorani; Perez Perez, Jose Manuel >>Asunto: Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein >> >>Hi Alejandra, >> >>Thank you for quick reply. >>I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf venation >>architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" picture (see pdf >>attachment). I will also look into those papers you mentioned here. >> >>One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >>peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in that >>particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is any >>specific terminology to describe such joined vein structure? Can we call >>it "brochidodromous vein" ? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Chih-Wei >> > >_______________________________________________ >Po-dev mailing list >Po-dev at plantontology.org >http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj37 at cornell.edu Tue Apr 22 11:19:41 2008 From: pj37 at cornell.edu (Pankaj Jaiswal) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:19:41 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein] Message-ID: <480E020D.1060702@cornell.edu> FYI. Suggestion from Maria A. Gandolfo Pankaj -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order vein Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:17:06 -0400 From: Maria A. Gandolfo To: Pankaj Jaiswal References: <40F38EDDE25B7B49B995267E735A9AEB281568 at xmail.nybg.org> <480DFE26.4040006 at cornell.edu> The marginal ultimate venation can be divided into into 3 categories: 1- Incomplete loops, this type can be found in both entire and toothed margin leaves. It is basically freely ending veinlets adjacent to the margin 2- looped, also in both types of margin, the veinlets are fused, forming the marginal ultimate vein that is recurved and forming loops. 3- Fimbrial vein Alejandra At 11:03 AM 4/22/2008, you wrote: > Question comes back to how we differentiate the fused/non-fused > terminal ends of the higher order veins present in the periphery [see > Jose Manuel response] and do we really want it? Also going by your, > Peter and Maria's suggestion, I think in that case instead of > Brochidromous vein we need peripheral vein as a new parent term with > two children namely submarginal and intramarginal veins. > > Can you help us with the definitions? > > Pankaj > > Dws wrote: >> Peter is correct on this. However, marginal and submarginal are >> nebulous at best. Where they start and stop is more or less in the >> eye of the beholder. One could stick with marginal and use it in the >> sense of the marginal seen in brochidromous. >> Dennis >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Stevens [ mailto:peter.stevens at mobot.org] Sent: Tuesday, >> April 22, 2008 9:10 AM >> To: Pankaj Jaiswal >> Cc: Dws; Fabio Fiorani; po-dev at plantontology.org; Jose Manuel Perez Perez >> Subject: Re: [Po-dev] RE: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high >> order vein >> Sorry, I have been at the University for a couple of days. >> Brochidromous venation strictly speaking refers to the venation as a >> whole; one might argue there is no such thing as a brochidromous >> vein. See earlier comment about submarginal veins. >> P. >> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote: >> >>> Please let me know if the following works. Although its more like a >>> phenotype term associated with the terminal end of secondary veins. >>> We can try to accommodate this request. [Phenotype terms are >>> strictly not added to PO]. Other terms associated with venation >>> type are 'acrodromous, eucamptodromous, semicraspedodromous.' >>> >>> Given this diversity in leaf venation, my suggestion would be to >>> create two separate instances of brochidodromous vein as follows. >>> Obviously we need a grouping term 'brochidodromous vein' as well. >>> Point to note: we are considering 'brochidodromous vein' as a new >>> entity (Plant structure) compared to its phenotype status described >>> above. >>> >>> leaf vein PO:0020138 >>> ---[is_a]--brochidodromous vein [PO:NEW] >>> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] >>> ------[is_a]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] >>> >>> >>> Also >>> >>> leaf vein PO:0020138 >>> ---[is_a]--secondary vein PO:0020140 >>> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous secondary vein [PO:NEW] >>> ---[is_a]--tertiary vein PO:0020140 >>> ------[develops_from]--brochidodromous tertiary vein [PO:NEW] >>> >>> Definitions: >>> brochidodromous vein >>> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary and/or >>> higher order veins do not terminate at the margins but rather are >>> joined in a series of prominent arches. >>> >>> brochidodromous secondary vein >>> Describes leaves with venation in which the secondary veins >>> do not >>> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of >>> prominent arches. >>> >>> brochidodromous tertiary vein >>> Describes leaves with venation in which the tertiary veins >>> do not >>> terminate at the margins but rather are joined in a series of >>> prominent arches. >>> >>> >>> Dws wrote: >>>> brochidodromous can form from secondary vein anatomoses in most >>>> cases, but in some, such as some species of Gnetum, it forms from >>>> anastomoses of tertiary veins and/or/a combination. >>>> Dennis Wm. Stevenson, FMLS >>>> Vice President for Laboratory Research >>>> Pfizer Curator in Botany >>>> Editor, Botanical Review >>>> Associate Editor, FLORA >>>> Editor-in-Chief, Cladistics >>>> The International Journal of the Willi Hennig Society >>>> Society web page: http://www.cladistics.org/ >>>> Journal web site: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/ >>>> useragent?func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 < http:// >>>> www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent? >>>> func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1 >>> www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent? >>>> func=showIssues&code=cla&cookieSet=1>> >>>> Online submission of manuscripts: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/cla >>>> New York Botanical Garden >>>> 2900 Southern Blvd. Bronx, NY 10458 >>>> Telephone: 718-817-8632 >>>> email: dws at nybg.org >>>> http://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/PlantNet/cycad/ >>>> http://www.plantsystematics.org/ >>>> http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/Profile_8.asp >>>> http://flmnh.ufl.edu/LINNE/ >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> *From:* Chih-Wei Tung [ mailto:cwt6 at cornell.edu] >>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:50 PM >>>> *To:* Maria A. Gandolfo >>>> *Cc:* po-dev at plantontology.org; Fabio Fiorani; Jose Manuel Perez >>>> Perez; Dws >>>> *Subject:* Re: Peripheral vein vs tertiary vein or high order >>>> vein >>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>> One more question, does this term " rochidodromous arch" only >>>> specific to secondary vein or can be used in any vein >>>> order? Chih-Wei >>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> More than brochidodromous vein it is a "brochidodromous arch". >>>>> Hickey, L.J. 1973. Classification of the architecture of >>>>> Dicotyledonous leaves. Amer. J. Bot 60: 17-33. >>>>> >>>>> Dilcher, D.L. 1974. Approaches to the identification of >>>>> angiosperms leaves. Bot Rev. 40 >>>>> >>>>> Leaf architecture Working group. 1999. Manual of leaf >>>>> architecture. 65 p. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Alejandra >>>>> At 12:01 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for quick reply. >>>>>> I also found a review paper "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous >>>>>> venation" picture (see >>>>>> pdf attachment). I will also look into those papers you >>>>>> mentioned here. >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at >>>>>> the peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are >>>>>> interested in that particular structure (peripheral vein), >>>>>> do you know if there is any specific terminology to describe >>>>>> such joined vein structure? Can we call it "brochidodromous >>>>>> vein" ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>> >>>>>> ??? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>>>> as one tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and >>>>>>> more recently LAWG 1999). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the >>>>>>> typical brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined >>>>>>> together in a series of prominent arches). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alejandra >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>> term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the margin >>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>> leaf >>>>>>>> lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>>>> tertiary >>>>>>>> vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to determine >>>>>>>> the vein >>>>>>>> orders when the veins form a continuous structure at the >>>>>>>> proximal >>>>>>>> ends. If you have any thoughts about this structure, >>>>>>>> please share >>>>>>>> wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as possible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alejandra, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for quick reply. I also found a review paper >>>>>> "Evolution and Function of leaf >>>>>> venation architecture", it has a "brochidodromous venation" >>>>>> picture (see pdf attachment). I will also look into those >>>>>> papers >>>>>> you mentioned here. >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing I am puzzled is the photo has a pink highlight at the >>>>>> peripheral region, it's likely AGRON-OMICS are interested in >>>>>> that >>>>>> particular structure (peripheral vein), do you know if there is >>>>>> any specific terminology to describe such joined vein >>>>>> structure? >>>>>> Can we call it "brochidodromous vein" ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Content-Type: application/pdf; >>>>>> x-mac-type=50444620; >>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>> x-mac-creator=4341524F; >>>>>> name=Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>>>> architecture-review.pdf >>>>>> Content-Disposition: inline; >>>>>> filename="Evolution and function of leaf venation >>>>>> architecture-review.pdf" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Maria A. Gandolfo wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Chih-Wei, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For many years paleobotanists have used leaf architecture >>>>>>> as one >>>>>>> tool to describe leaf remains. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are several papers that address the leaf vein >>>>>>> architecture terminology (Dilcher 1973, Hickey 1974 and more >>>>>>> recently LAWG 1999). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What the photo is showing is considered to be the typical >>>>>>> brochidodromous venation (secondary veins joined together in a >>>>>>> series of prominent arches). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you want the papers I mentioned, I can send them to you >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alejandra >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At 10:27 AM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>>>>>>> Dear PO developers, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We recently got a request from AGRONO-MICS group regarding >>>>>>>> to the term " peripheral vein: a vein located toward the >>>>>>>> margin of the >>>>>>>> leaf lamina" (see attached picture). >>>>>>>> Pankaj raised a issue about how peripheral vein differs from >>>>>>>> tertiary vein or high order vein, it is very tricky to >>>>>>>> determine the vein orders when the veins form a continuous >>>>>>>> structure at the proximal ends. If you have any thoughts >>>>>>>> about this structure, please >>>>>>>> share wit us, we would like to resolve it as soon as >>>>>>>> possible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chih-Wei >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; >>>>>>>> x-mac-type=5738424E; >>>>>>>> x-unix-mode=0644; >>>>>>>> x-mac-creator=4D535744; >>>>>>>> name=peripheral vein.doc >>>>>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>>>>>>> filename="peripheral vein.doc" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG. >>>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2 - Release Date: >>>> 4/18/2008 12:00 AM >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> --- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Po-dev mailing list >>>> Po-dev at plantontology.org >>>> http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev >>> -- >>> Pankaj Jaiswal >>> G-15, Bradfield Hall >>> Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics >>> Cornell University >>> Ithaca, NY-14853, USA >>> >>> Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 >>> fax: +1-607-255-6683 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Po-dev mailing list >>> Po-dev at plantontology.org >>> http://mail.plantontology.org/mailman/listinfo/po-dev >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3 - Release >> Date: 4/21/2008 12:00 AM >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3 - Release >> Date: 4/21/2008 12:00 AM >> > > -- > Pankaj Jaiswal > G-15, Bradfield Hall > Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics > Cornell University > Ithaca, NY-14853, USA > > Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 > fax: +1-607-255-6683 -- Pankaj Jaiswal G-15, Bradfield Hall Dept. of Plant Breeding and Genetics Cornell University Ithaca, NY-14853, USA Ph. +1-607-255-3103 / 4199 fax: +1-607-255-6683