new term request: Hull

[Pankaj Jaiswal]

There is some difficulty on putting hull as synonym. I think there is a 
precedence on creating a new term even though a part is called by 
different name in a derive parent structure. e.g. in seed many parts are 
derived from the ovule, e.g. chalaza, micropyle, testa etc. These are 
derived structures or rather the same structures but sometimes can be 
called by different names. Similarly it will be very difficult  to 
annotate phenotypes and gene expression such as in case of 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16443696&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum
to lemma and palea. In this case the actual structure is called as hull. 
I think we need hull as a new term, and the parentage as follows

fruit
---part_of---hull

Also

floret
--part_of--lemma
-----develops_from--hull
--part_of--palea
-----develops_from--hull

-Pankaj

peter.stevens at mobot.org wrote:

> I agree with Toby - second would include all sorts of things, and
> third is difficult - the K of raspberries barely is enlarged at all,
> and is basically marcescent - marcescent calyces are common, and
> nobody ever calls then a hull (and I hope never will).
> 
> P.
> 
> .
>  >Hi Pankaj -
>  >
>  >I'd still go with synonym of lemma and palea, probably as hull sensu
>  >Poaceae. I'd prefer to avoid the first defniition you've listed
>  >below, since it doesn't pertain to anything botanical (or maybe
>  >pertains to everything). Following the second definition, you could
>  >have a synonym of calyx being hull sensu Rosaceae.
>  >
>  >Toby
>  >
>  >
>  >On Jan 25, 2006, at 3:29 PM, Pankaj Jaiswal wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  >Hi All,
>  >
>  >
>  >I need a new term to describe 'hull' in cereal plants. I know
>  >experts say that it is nothing different than lemma and palea, the
>  >two parts found in grass floret. Therefore the options are to put
>  >'hull' as synonyms of both lemma and palea, which I somehow disagree
>  >because the term 'hull' is never used in florets/grass flowers. The
>  >usage is only in the grass fruits (caryopsis). It also appears that
>  >the same term is used in other families as well. So we need a
>  >species/organ specific distinction as well.
>  >
>  >
>  ># dry outer covering of a fruit or seed or nut
>  >
>  ># persistent enlarged calyx at base of e.g. a strawberry or raspberry
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >-Pankaj
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >Elizabeth A. Kellogg
>  >
>  >E. Desmond Lee and Family Professor of Botanical Studies
>  >
>  >Department of Biology
>  >
>  >University of Missouri-St. Louis
>  >
>  >St. Louis, MO 63121
>  >
>  >Tel: 314-516-6217
>  >
>  >FAX: 314-516-6233
>  >
>  >http://www.umsl.edu/services/kellogg/
>