question on monocot flower development

[Pankaj Jaiswal]

Dear Jerry,

I agree with you and others. We should not make this distinction in the 
flower development area. We can keep it as generic as possible.

Pankaj

Jerrold I Davis wrote:

> Hi --
> 
> You know your needs best, but if my opinion were sought I would 
> recommend that you NOT create a separate system for monocots and 
> dicots.  We do use the same general terms for floral parts in both 
> groups, and arguments concerning separate origins are fairly 
> speculative.  On re-reading my earlier note, in which I suggested that 
> the case for separate origins had been strengthened of late, I feel that 
> I may have overstated the case.    There really is no compelling case 
> that I know of for treating the floral parts of monocots and dicots as 
> different things.
> 
> Another argument agains a dicot/monocot distinction lies in the fact 
> that the monocots are phylogenetically nested within the dicots.  Thus, 
> some dicots are more closely related to monocots than they are to other 
> dicots:
> 
>              _____ dicot 1
>              |
> --------------    _____ monocots
>              |    |
>              |-----
>                   |____ dicot 2
> 
> 
> So the old monocot/dicot distinction is misleading, and it might turn 
> out that any peculiar floral attributes of monocots are shared with some 
> dicots, but not with others.  By setting up a dichotomy out the outset, 
> one may tend to obscure this situation.  Better to let the data 
> accumulate, I would argue, and see how the chips fall.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jerry Davis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 09:31 AM 5/26/2004 Wednesday +0100, you wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jerrold,
>>
>> Thank you for your comments. I think it would be very interesting to 
>> consider subgroups within the dicots further down the line. However, 
>> right now we are just trying to cover the two groups: dicot and 
>> monocot. We've found in the past that if we try to make large sections 
>> of ontology covering lots of different species at once then things can 
>> get so complicated that we never reach the implementation stage. 
>> That's why we're sticking to solving one problem at a time.
>>
>> Pankaj has conveyed my question very well below. The motivation behind 
>> this question is that I need to make the terms: sepal development, 
>> petal development, stamen development, carpel development, for dicots. 
>> I would like to know whether the monocot annotators will need a sensu 
>> version of the same terms, or whether these flower parts would have 
>> different names in monocots anyway.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerrold I Davis wrote:
>>
>>> Pankaj:
>>>
>>> Through the years, it has often been hypothesized that various floral 
>>> parts of monocots and dicots (generally perianth parts, as opposed to 
>>> stamen or pistil) have arisen independently.  This view of things has 
>>> been strengthened in recent years by the placement of various 
>>> apetalous taxa as early-divering elements within the dicots.  
>>> However, there are also many potential cases of parallel gains and 
>>> gain/loss/gain events among dicots alone, so I would be wary of any 
>>> attempt to distinguish monocots from dicots while failing to address 
>>> equally or more compelling cases within the dicots.
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>>
>>> At 11:16 AM 5/25/2004 Tuesday -0400, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I have a question on flower development in Monocots. The reason I am 
>>>> asking this is because I am working with Gene Ontology group 
>>>> (www.geneontology.org) to introduce the biological process that 
>>>> represent a flower development. While doing this we need to 
>>>> instantiate whether,
>>>>
>>>> -It is possible to do most of the gene expression and phenotype 
>>>> annotation using a generic term or do we need a monocot and dicot 
>>>> specific term?.
>>>> -Is there a conceptual difference between the development of a 
>>>> monocot and dicot flower and its parts? e.g. is there a difference 
>>>> between a monocot and dicot anther/carpel/petal/sepal/tepal 
>>>> development.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Pankaj
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________
>>>
>>> Jerrold I Davis
>>> Associate Professor
>>>
>>> Department of Plant Biology
>>> (office: 214 Plant Science Building)
>>> (mailing address: 228 Plant Science Building)
>>> Cornell University
>>> Ithaca, New York 14853
>>> U.S.A.
>>>
>>> phone:   607-255-7980
>>> fax:     607-255-5407
>>> e-mail:  JID1 at cornell.edu
>>> ______________________________
>>>
> 
> 

-- 
************************
Pankaj Jaiswal, PhD
G15-Bradfiled Hall
Dept. of Plant Breeding
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY-14853, USA

Tel: +1-607-255-3103
      +1-607-255-4109
Fax: +1-607-255-6683
http://www.gramene.org
************************